Saturday, December 4, 2010

Blood Angels All Assault Marines List

Today I decided I wanted to make an all-assault Blood Angels list, for funsies.  I've been thinking about it conceptually for a while, trying to decide if I thought it was competitive or not.  In the end, I think it has the potential to be competitive, but well... I'll give more thoughts on it after I post the list up.

The list (at ~1850):

Librarian w/ Fear of the Darkness and Unleash Rage (Preferred Enemy), Jump Pack

10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta Guns, Infernus Pistol, Power Fist
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta Guns, Infernus Pistol, Power Fist
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta Guns, Infernus Pistol, Power Fist
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta Guns, Infernus Pistol, Power Fist
10x Assault Marines w/ 2x Melta Guns, Infernus Pistol, Power Fist

3x Sanguinary Priests w/ 3x Jump Packs

So, it's a simple list, really.  Sanguinor leads the assault squads, who in theory all benefit from his +1 attack bubble of doom.  He also makes one of the sergeants a Khorne Berzerker Champ, with WS5, 4 PF attacks on the charge, etc.  The Sergeant can even be better than a Berzkerker Champ since he can have FNP and +1 attack from Sanguinor.

The Librarian floats around, giving out rerolls to hit to one squad who needs it.  The Priests try to keep everyone endowed with FNP, and Furious Charge if they want it.

I added Infernus Pistols to every Sergeant because I think this list needs S8 AP 1 or 2.  Against TMC (Tyrranid Monstrous Creatures) and any number of T4 W2 models, they're money, and the 'volume' of melta fire this list can put out can even substantially weaken Wolfstars like mine.

Another option this list has is to DoA (Decent of Angels) everything, or just some things.  For example, breaking a couple of the squads into 'suicide melta' combat squads, and having a functional 5-man assault squad elsewhere can help get rid of pesky tanks in the backfield. 

This list has lots of tactical diversity.  Lots of attacks available where needed, psychic defense, a 3rd 'character' created by Sanguinor, the ability to hold everything in reserve, or just drop down and cause mayhem.  In my mind, the ability to counter charge is also huge.  If you haven't read that article, feel free to read it, this list benefits from that method of play quite a bit.

55 Jump Marines, with FNP, Furious Charge, lots of melta, the list goes on.  I think this is as close to an auto-win vs. Guard as you get, honestly, and also against Tau (probably against just about any gunline).  Not that this is an auto-win, mind you.  It's simply as close as you get.

The bad part:  you have to buy and paint 55 assault marines.

One minor tweak I'm thinking of:  giving the Librarian the 5+ cover save bubble power, to help against AP2 more, instead of fear of the darkness.  They're both good powers, the cover save might be better in this case...

What do you think of the list?  Tweaks?  Comments?  Armies that trump this one easily?  Better ideas?  Let me know!


AbusePuppy said...

Give the Priests Lightning Claws (or at least Power Weapons); you can use a little bit more fighty.

Honor Guard and/or Vanguard Vetrans would significantly increase the viability of the list; as-is, there is a good chance you will get severely shot up when you arrive. VV will help shut down bang-bang units and HG (kitted with 3-4 Meltaguns) will silence virtually any tank (and also provide you an extra FNP bubble in the mix.)

I suppose if you're looking for a "pure" ASM list, though...

Zachary said...

insteresting... did you recive my list?

Xaereth said...

AbusePuppy: Thanks for the input :)

From your comment, it seems like you're under the impression that this list is primarily a deepstrike army. That is certainly not the case- I think against lots of lists (especially ones with pie plates), this list would do far better simply deploying in the 'standard' way, and making their way forward, with a few 'suicide melta' teams here and there deepstriking.

I'd be open to the idea of HG or Vanguard, especially in a 2000 point version of this list. I just don't want to sacrifice bodies for 'potentially unneeded' upgrades. Vanguard could really help this list out I think, though I'm still not 100% sure about the HG. I'll have to do some points comparisons soon :)

As to the power weapon/claw on the Priests- I'm honestly not a big fan of it, simply because of wound allocation shenans. If I'm doing 12 wounds to a squad after I charge them (which is fairly standard, without preferred enemy, but with FC), 2 of those would be power, and someone's flamer or melta gun would simply die, soaking up both power wounds. I don't see the power wounds really contributing a whole lot. In fact, I'd rather have a reason to keep the priest out of combat for a round if I possibly can, since he's pretty vulnerable.

Zachary: No, I didn't. I had been wondering if you had ever sent it. Try sending again. If I do get it, I'll email you back to confirm I got it, pretty quick afterwards (I have email on my phone). If you don't get it, try try again lol

AbusePuppy said...

Deploying on-table is perfectly viable for a jumpers list, but in my experience deep striking is your "default" method, since it takes best advantage of your strengths (close combat, extensive flamer/melta, ability to easily claim a point even on short notice.) Being clumped up often isn't a problem- you're looking to disable most enemy blasts and templates the turn you arrive, since you want to diminish their shooting as much as possible in any case. (This is one reason VV are so good, as they can take out heavy weapons squads before they do any damage.)

With regards to wound allocation and Priests' weapons, you have a fair point; I generally have the Priest in a 5man squad, so it's much less of an issue. (Many people are also reluctant to doom their Sarge or weapon trooper to try and dodge a wound.) Giving them Infernus Pistols is another option- it gives you that extra bit of AT that is sometimes needed.

With regards to Honor Guard: HG with jump packs are 165; a half-strength Assault Squad with a Priest is 150pts and has one more body, but significantly fewer attacks (base one instead of two) and its bubble is attached to an IC, who can be singled out and killed, whereas the HG's bubble cannot. Of course, the ASM are scoring, but the HG can load up on special weapons.

Basically, I like Honor Guard for providing an extra bit of firepower in a drop list; if you aren't deep striking them in, they're probably going to get shot before they can do anything and thus are much less useful. They and ASM are on reasonably even footings, each having its advantages and disadvantages, but they're worth thinking about and aren't much more expensive than regular troopers.

Black Blow Fly said...

I would give the Librarian the shield power as you'll be using this one a lot more often. You also might want to consider using Astrorath - any squad he makes fearless is a big boon in my opinion.

I think this is a good army and will do very well versus certain lists but it's not well rounded enough to handle all lists. Probably four full assault squads should be enough. If you were to drop one that would be enough points for a stormraven, then youd have some very decent long ranged AT. I'd also even go so far as dropping another squad for either VV or HG.

How do you think the list would fare versus dark eldar?

Gareth said...

Nice list, I like the idea of all those Jumpers swarming across the table. What do you think it would look like at lower point levels? At 1500? Or do you not think it is viable at that points level?

Xaereth said...

AbusePuppy: I somewhat disagree that an all jump army should have their 'default' be set to Deep Strike. Whereas they can certainly benefit from this style of deployment from time to time, there are a lot of factors that make it less viable than simply deploying on the table lots of times:

-placement of priests: can you reliably deepstrike all of the squads close enough to eachother to get FNP?
-unreliability of reserves rolls: what if reserves screw you and you only get 2 units in? Sure, their rerolls give them more reliability, but odds are you're going to at least *not* get a unit in that you wanted in
-clumped up: You say it's not a huge deal since you'll usually take out every pie plate out there. But what about plasma cannons? Or Psyker Battle Squads? Seems like a lot of stuff can really hurt squads clumped up like that
-Your opponent can react to you, and get the charge. If you're melta-ing stuff, you're close enough to be charged. You lose an enormous advantage by losing the charge, and letting your opponent react to you.

As to the honor guard, I think you're right enough- they aren't bad for the points they cost. I guess the question is this: is what they bring to the table worth sacrificing a few T4 3+ save/FNP bodies? It's a judgement call, but thanks for bringing them up, it's easy to write expensive-ish squads off (for me, at least, heh)

Xaereth said...

BBF: Yeah, the shield power would probably be useful, I agree. I'm just not a big fan of relying on a 5+ save, which is why I'm usually so hesitant to use it in my lists.

As to dropping squads to get a storm raven... I guess I don't see how a Raven could be considered 'cost-effective' long range firepower. You're paying for a fast vehicle that is immune to melta, transports dreadnoughts, etc. You aren't paying for raw shooty, and thus you're paying 200 points for a TLLC and a TLMM. Not my idea of efficiency, really. Is there something more to what you're saying that I'm missing?

How this list would do against Dark Eldar... I think it would depend on the game, obviously, heh. But short answer: I think they'd do fine. Wyches don't match up well at all with Blood Angels who also have FNP, and though Incubi are likely to be pretty good against this list, a couple assault squads should be able to get rid of them in a turn of messy (messy!) combat. I don't foresee many players taking more than a single squad of Incubi (though the models do pretty much rock).

Also, there's always the option to play the reserves game vs. DE. If they stay in reserves, you can do the same, and come in when and where you choose, better than they can. Melta really does a number on any of their vehicles as well, and this list is fast enough that their advantage in mobility won't be enough to stay away from meltas- even long range meltas are amazing against DE.

Perhaps the biggest thing about it: many Dark Eldar lists depend on poison to do well, which equates to volume of attacks/wounds caused. FNP greatly reduces the impact of volume of fire.

That's how I see it anyways. That all being said, Dark Eldar wouldn't be my favorite matchup for this list by any means :)


Thanks man, glad you liked it :) I would probably drop the Sanguinor in order to get to a smaller points size, to be honest. If this list is at 1875 or something around there, that would drop it to 1600 or so. It would then be up to you to choose what to drop- an assault squad seems like the 'obvious' choice, though I'm always loathe to do that.

The key to this list is to have such a large number of Assault Marines w/ FNP that it is impossible to deal with easily.

So, you could drop one squad to 5, and call it good. I'd keep the Librarian though- he's needed for at the least psychic defense, and you need an HQ anyways, heh.

Wow, I've written more in comments about this list than my actual post! Thanks for the input, everyone :)