Sunday, April 25, 2010

A Blood Angels Death Star?

I've been playing around with 'Ard Boyz lists lately, and come up with a lot of weird stuff that's mostly useless.  Not saying you can't win using lists like these, but I'm not under the impression they're going to be good 'take all comers list'.

-Tri-Raven lists are kinda cool, but are really kinda inferior versions of Vendetta-spam lists, since they depend on good reserve rolls and can't really outflank.  They seem fun, but I don't really feel like explaining my 'counts-as Storm Raven' Vendettas to everyone I play.

-6-Raider lists seem indestructable until you factor in the fact that you don't have ANYTHING else, and even 6 raiders aren't going to cause TOO much destruction in one turn, not to mention if even one dies you're down 16% of your army.  The fact that someone with melta spam could (reasonably expect) to destroy 3 in one turn, losing you 50% of your army in one fell swoop, makes this sort of list a fail.  I'm sure someone could pull it off.  Certainly not me.  Espeically when I don't want to buy $300 worth of Land Raiders.

-Shooting spam lists just don't do as much as a good Wolf shooty list, not to mention an IG mech list.  Sure, AV13 spam is aweome, all that.  The thing is, especially in an 'Ard boys setting, 3 Baal Predators just aren't going to make the sort of impact you want.  You just can't max out a shooty list that's going to be as efficient as other armies.  The heavy support is so heavily contested in this situation (3 preds?  3 dev squads?  3 vindicators? a mix of them?) that you have to start buying razorbacks to get your heavy support.  While 6-9 razors with las cannons are alright (since you have scoring troops inside) you aren't getting nearly the sort of PPL (price per las :-P ) as Imperial guard do on vendettas with scoring guys inside.  Sure, you can move 12" and shoot.  Whatever, I guess we'll see if it can overpower a good IG army if the IG get the first turn.  Feel free to rip me apart for this, lol.  Til I see it though, I'm not really convinced.  Any army that relies on getting 1st turn is going to fail in an 'Ard Boyz setting.

So, what should I take?  Everything I've talked about so far have been 'spam' lists, that I'm obviously not a fan of.  I think the answer lies in what Blood Angels do best:  fast, versatile assault.

I've already touched on the versatility of assault squads in a Blood Angels army.  Today I'll go a step further and talk about my thoughts on a 'Death Star' type squad- Vanguard Veterans.

Now, I realize they aren't exactly SUPER tough to kill, they don't have tons of complex wounds, if you want to assault with them off the deepstrike you have to NOT have a Sanguinary Priest with them (so they don't have furious charge or feel no pain), they don't have ridiculous combat output, or even amazing ranged attacks.  I still think they're worthy of consideration though.  Here's the loadout I'm thinking of:

10 Vanguard Veterans, w/ 10 Jump Packs, 3 Storm Shields, 3 Thunder Hammers, 7 Melta Bombs- 450 points or so.

It's a lot of points to dump into 10 reasonably squishy guys, but I think this squad (theoretically, anyways) has a lot to offer. 

- You can split them into 2 combat squads if you want, and go tank-hunting with both squads, or have one pure melta-bomb squad and one 'super-combat squad'.

- Tank hunting is awesome with them, with the mix of being able to reroll reserves, and only roll 1d6 on the scatter, makes them pretty dependable.  Multiple melta bombs means you can multi-charge a chimera line and hopefully kill or immobilize 2 or even 3 tanks in a turn with only 5 of your own models.

- If the situation warrants it (like, against orks), you can start them on the table, and put the Reclusiarch w/ JP I'm planning on taking, with them, as well as a Sanguinary Priest.  This makes them more durable and pretty awesome on the charge.

-Nids are somewhat notorious for hiding their big guys like tervigons or tyrranofexes (or even hive guard) behind their massive lines of gaunts, protecting them for the most part until they choose to strike.  Vanguard with storm shields can 'snipe' a monsterous creature like this with almost no worries, since the wounds they cause will just go on shields without really affecting the rest of the squad.  The hammers will likely mess them up in 2 rounds of combat, leaving them ready to charge someone else.  Also keep in mind that if you can kill tervigons, it really throws 'Nids off their gameplan.

- Against eldar, vanguard have a good use as well, since they can be used to help 'corner' the huge number of eldar skimmers.  They can also get the charge off against a seer council or jetbike squad that doesn't want attention, holding their prey still, waiting for the rest of the army to come in and help.

-I'm also pretty excited for deepstriking and hitting a squad of oblits, lootas, or broadsides. 

-Also keep in mind that since they come in turn 2 usually, my rhinos and potentially other assault squads (with Priests) are already up in my opponent's face.  It's pretty possible that they'll be able to get into the 6" bubble of Furious Charge/FNP on the turn they get in anyways.  Also, when deepstriking in conjunction with another assault squad with a priest, they could get FNP/FC that way as well.

-In the end, it's always useful to have a squad that can come in from anywhere and assault (hard) the turn it comes in, with the tools to take on just about any sort of squad and the ability to get where they need to be easily.  Expensive?  Yes.  Worth it?  I'm not sure.  What do you think?


Zac Pauga said...

you want a death star?

Astorath- 220

30x death company- 600
30x death company- 600
30x death company- 600


90 FnP FC marines that you have absolutely no control over lol.
I am really intrigued with you ideas about sternguard and vanguard, I have been having a lot of success with just massed assault marines. Heres the ard boy list I've been using and having a lot of success with.

Mephiston- 250
Sanguinor- 275

Furiouso Dreadnought-125
Chaplain with Jump pack- 125
Corbulo- 105
Sanguinary priest- 50
Sanguinary priest with Jump pack- 75

5x assault marines- 155
melta gun, power fist, razorback /w twin-linked heavy flamer.

5x assault marines- 155
melta gun, power fist, razorback /w twin-linked heavy flamer.

10x Assault marines- 250
2x melta gun, powerfist, rhino

10x assault marine- 235
2x melta gun, power fist.

10x assault marine- 235
2x melta gun, power fist.

Fast Attack
Baal predator- 145
Assault cannon, heavy bolter sponsons
Baal Predator- 140
Flamestorm cannon, heavy flamer

Vindicator 150.

Xaereth said...

lol, that's quite the death star. I'm not even sure how I would deal with an army like that- that's too many fearless 3+/4+ armored guys. Throw in a couple chaplains and some scoring units and it might end up rocking. Maybe spend 300 points to give one squad jump packs, haha.

Otherwise, how is the Sanguinor/Mephiston combo working out for you? Sanguinor just seems like he isn't worth the points, but that's probably just me. He does buff a sergeant, which is worth a few points if (like in your list) all the sergeants are well-equipped. Your list looks pretty similar to my current one, though I tend to like veterans more than you it seems. That's how I was in the PDF tho too...

How's the Furioso working out for you? What are you using him for? Just curious, since I keep wanting to use one too.

Zac Pauga said...

I'm really impressed with the Sanguinor. What I've been using him for is his +1 attack bubble. THat makes those 40 assault marines even scarier.

I'm really conflicted on the dreadnought, he has done amazing things and he has done nothing. Against Rain he killed a whole Berzerker squad, a whole plague marine squad and then typhus before getting shot down and against andrew yesterday he put a huge dent in an 8 man terminator squad. BUt the second time I played rain he died turn one after being focus fired.

I've been using him two ways, first is just as a first turn drop dread, come down, melta something, and pray he lives to get into combat. The other way is I just put him on one flank and mephiston on the other making a pretty nasty pincer with sanguinor and the assault marine blob in the middle.

Michael said...

A word on the Vanguard: drop a man or two and add more storm shields. I have played a few games with these guys, 2 5-man squads with 2 SS each, and I cant stress enough how you need more storm shields to weather the heavy fire and PW attacks that you will face.

They can really put on the hurt, but they haven't been survivable enough for my taste.

TMiles001 said...

Actually - it would cost 450pts to give jump packs to a squad of 30 Death Company...