Tuesday, August 23, 2016

Warmachine Battle Report 43: Baldur1, Baldur2, and Krueger2 vs. Cygnar and Menoth! (3 total reports)

Image result for two boulders
Boulder1 and Boulder2
Hi all,

FIRST OFF, there's a vote for you at the end of Game 2's report. Either post on this blog, the PP forums, or my Twitter account.

I've skipped reporting a few of my games lately, mainly because I had tournament reports to write and I wanted to make sure I wasn't burning myself out. However, no tournament last weekend meant that I could write these reports without hating life.

And then it's back to 2 or 3 tournaments in a row. And then a period of rest, because the internets can't handle that many reports, lol.

As I've stated in the past, I'm getting tired of using Wurmwood. He's just kind of ... formulaic. And truth be told, whereas I do enjoy winning, I also enjoy exploring corners of whatever faction I play that aren't currently being explored. At least, publicly explored, heh.

I'm trying to find a pairing for the really shooty lists out there, Sloan being one of the top on my list. The unreasonably optimistic part of my wants to believe that Grayle with all his shooting negation and stealth could be an answer. The reasonable side of me thinks
that Grayle will just die horribly if I try something that foolish. Sloan out-ranges his control area (his anti-shooting effects are limited to his control area), and she helps everyone that matters ignore stealth.

Krueger1 is also an option, though DEF 17 on my wolves seems pretty chancy when Sloan's battle group is aiming at RAT 8 with boosted shots.

I'll probably try both Krueger1 and Grayle sooner or later, but since I don't own Grayle's model yet (local store owner is struggling to acquire him, somehow), and Krueger1's maths tell me that he won't work, I'm essentially stuck with trying Baldur2 and/or Krueger2. Not that Krueger2 will work, but he does have some tricks that would make the matchup more palatable. We'll see what happens.

At any rate, here are two reports using Baldur2 and Krueger2 vs. shooty lists, and yet another Baldur1 report because he was requested :)

Game 1: Baldur2 vs. Stryker1

My list:

- Ghettorix
- Feral Warpwolf
- Riphorn Satyr
- Megalith
- Woldwyrd

Sentry Stone & Mannikins
Sentry Stone & Mannikins
Shifting Stones

Blackclad Wayfarer
Blackclad Wayfarer
Gallows Grove

Nick's list:

- Stormwall
- Firefly
- Thorn

Stormblade Infantry (with all the extras)
Gobber Mechanics...?

Lots of support solos

>> I won the roll to go first, and took the side of the table with a fence, which also gave Nick the fire hill to dodge around.

Pre-game thoughts:

My battlegroup is SO BIG for a 6-fury caster, but it should actually work out okay. The Wyrd is there because I had 9 points, and he's good against a wide variety of targets. Seems like everyone has at least ONE infantry unit that gets buffed by their caster. Wyrd helps with that, without really worrying about fury.

Ghetto can get up to ARM 22 (Spiny Growth + Roots of the Earth), and the Feral up to ARM 21. Riphorn and Megalith also get to ARM 22.

With the addition of a wall, Ghetto can get up to DEF 18/ARM 22 vs. shooting on his approach. Feral is only one point of ARM worse.

I realize that people are trying out the double Woldwrath with Baldur2, but it seems to me to be pretty one-dimensional. If someone can crack ARM 23, you auto-lose. If they have lots of blessed weapons, you lose. If they can get to Baldur somehow, you lose. Not to mention, it's relatively pillow-fisted as well. POW 19 is fine, but it's not wonderful. It certainly doesn't crack ARM 23 lol.

I want something with more options, more punching, more threat range. This list gives me more options. Whether or not it's actually good or not has yet to be determined, haha :)

With this particular game, it's an interesting fact that Stryker1's feat gives his models +5 ARM, whereas my own feat only gives my models +3 ARM. In addition, his Stormblade Infantry get up to like ARM 26 on his feat turn, since they also pop their own mini-feat, and I think get the +3 ARM spell as well.

My goal was to see how resilient my units really were. Yes, winning would be nice, but I needed to test how survivable Ghetto and the Feral truly were.


Ah, first games with new casters are sometimes very awkward. This game was no exception.

My army is more painted than his!
Cygnar Turn 1:

Nick ran up. Piper of Ord gave the Stormblades tough, and they also got Arcane Shield.

Stormwall also got Arcane Shield.

Circle Turn 1:

I ran my guys up somewhat awkwardly. I'd need to deal with Stormwall, so Ghetto had shuffled over in that direction, but ideally my Goat would be covered by the Sentry Stones' forest (that way I wouldn't need to spend fury on buffing him). Lots of little things contributed to the awkwardness of my positioning. Things that get much better over time.

At any rate, I did put Roots of the Earth (RotE) up on Ghetto, the Feral, and Riphorn. Baldur used his last two fury to put a wall up in front of the Feral and Riphorn.

I think that the Mannikins managed to kill a couple Stormblades with their sprays. Or maybe they just failed. I don't remember.

One thing I noticed - Baldur2 REALLY wants to spend lots of fury. Will be hard to manage his battle group fury levels.

Cygnar Turn 2:

Nick advanced his army. A series of poor rolls only killed off 6 Mannikins and a single Sentry Stone. Thorn was initially going to use Stryker's knockdown spell to defeat my DEF, but he soon learned that RotE also prevents knockdown.

His shots at my other beasts either missed or did nothing of consequence.

At any rate, Stryker did then POP HIS FEAT.

Stormblades also popped their mini feat. I wouldn't be doing much damage next turn.

The white template on the left is a cloud effect terrain piece. Heh.

Circle Turn 2:

I wouldn't be able to do much this turn. Everything was +5 ARM where it wasn't +8 ARM or +11 ARM (literally).

My goal this turn was to tie up a few of Nick's important models and set up for next turn.

Wold Wyrd actually cracked the 26 ARM of one of the Stormblades (POW 10 + 4d6 FTW).

Ghetto and Megalith punched Thorn a few times and knocked out his arc node.

Riphorn saw a really fun opportunity to slam the Firefly into the obstruction, so he ran at the Firefly, boosted to hit, and MISSED. Lol, your one chance to show that you aren't entirely useless, and you still miss?! Silly Goat!

Baldur re-grew his wall in front of Ghetto and the Feral, then POPPED HIS FEAT. Non-spell RotE for all!

Funny to think that Stryker1 gets +5 ARM and Baldur only gets +3 ARM/no movement or knockdown. Stryker1 actually struck me as a really boring caster, lol.

Cygnar Turn 3:

Despite their ability to hit really hard, the Stormblades didn't really do much damage to me when they charged. Mostly, they missed their swings.

Stormwall (with a full stack of focus) managed to get a charge in on Ghetto, but because of the wall, Ghetto was DEF 16/ARM 22. Ghetto only had about half of his life punched away.

The Riphorn was also mostly unscathed, despite DEF 12.

Overall, a pretty "good" turn for me.

Nick did manage to score this turn, however.

Score: 1-0, advantage Cygnar.

Actually, maybe Ghetto was only DEF 14 vs. the Stormwall.
Circle Turn 3:

 I needed to kill as many of the Stormblade Infantry as I could this turn, and put a huge dent in the Stormwall. I also wanted to kill some Mechanics near Stormwall to keep it from being repaired.

Blackclad Wayfarers went first and essentially killed ALL of the Stormblades on their own. Turns out ARM 15 is significantly easier to crack than ARM 26, lol.

Woldwyrd went next and took about 7 boxes off of the Stormwall.

Megalith walked up and killed Thorn, then put RotE on himself.

I had a weird moment of realization that Baldur wasn't going to be able to cast Primal often due to fury constraints.

So, Feral walked up, killed the last remaining Stormblades, and put Primal on Ghetto.

Ghetto walked up and punched the Stormwall really hard. He spiked some damage, but the Stormwall was left with 3 boxes.

Whereas this was a lot of damage, it also left Stormwall fully functional. I could have found a way to put some more damage on Stormwall if I was more familiar with this list.

Riphorn killed the two solos engaging him, but due to fury considerations decided to leave the Firefly alone.

Mannikin sprayed a couple of Gobbers to death.

Baldur was forced to advance and only put RotE on the Feral. He also grew a wall between Ghetto/Feral and the Stormwall. He camped 2.

Not a terrible turn exactly.

Score: 1-0, advantage Cygnar.

Stormwall is still fully functional... :-/

Cygnar Turn 4:

Nick was running out of significant pieces. He did what he could though.

Stormwall was repaired a little bit, then spent his stack punching the un-buffed Ghetto to death.

Not much else happened though. My constant ARM and DEF combination appeared to be somewhat suffocating.

Score: 1-0, advantage Cygnar.

Stryker isn't looking very happy.

Circle Turn 4:

I had the opportunity to kill Striker this turn, and decided I should take it.

Megalith went first and killed the Stormwall.

Baldur put Primal on the Feral.

Woldwyrd shot most of the life off of Stryker.

Feral warped for speed and advanced to Striker and finished him off in one punch.

The game ended.

Game Results: Win for Circle Orboros via Assassination!!

Post-game thoughts:

Well, it was an interesting game. Our feats didn't allow us to do much damage to each other, which meant that my consistent ARM buffs eventually won out over the one solid (albeit ridiculous) burst of superior ARM.

I quite enjoyed the list, and having a POW 21 Ghetto was nice to experience again. The Wyrd actually did some WORK, and makes me want to try it out in other lists as well.

Fury was a constant concern for me.

I hate that I have to admit this. Hate hate hate. But here it goes:

I think that a lot of my issues in this list could be solved if I had Wrongeye and Snapjaw. Snapjaw hits as hard as the Riphorn, but has a different caster to manage his fury. In addition, the ridiculous nature of a DEF 16 (behind the wall) Ghetto with star-crossed helping him vs. melee attacks just seems um... stupidly good.

Also, I wouldn't need to use the ARM buff to cover WE&SJ - they would be submerged.

I hate that I realized that, especially when I told lots of people I didn't want to use them.

We'll see what happens. FML.

Game 2: Krueger2 vs. Menoth's Severius2

My list:

- Ghettorix
- Feral Warpwolf
- Pureblood Warpwolf
- Woldwyrd

Stoneward and Wold Stalkers (shrimp)
Sentry Stone & Mannikins
Sentry Stone & Mannikins

Blackclad Wayfarer
Blackclad Wayfarer
Alten Ashley (proxy - actual model being painted right now)

His List:

- Reckoner
- Reckoner
- Blessing of Vengeance
- Redeemer
- Redeemer

Idrians (max)
Rhoven and Company

>> I won the roll to go first and took the side of the board that had rubble terrain near its flag and another patch of rubble terrain screening the flag.

Pre-game thoughts:

Heh, I'd played Severius2 one other time during MK3, and that was vs. Vlad in Game 5 of the Rocky Mountain Rumble. This list was very similar, but had a little more offense and a little less utility/ability to shut me down.

This was a pretty shooty list, with the Redeemers shooting at 16" and the Reckoners at 12". Severius himself had a really potent arc node (the arc node actively makes his offensive spells better).

This Krueger list is a bit of a gunline. Mannikins, Shrimp, Wyrd, Pureblood, Blackclads, Alten, Krueger... lol. Ghetto and the Feral would need to be protected of course, but I could likely throw them away as distractions at the edge of the zone.

Thing is, playing against a shooty list like this, I could almost depend on my opponent hanging back at the edge of the zone with some infantry to screen. One of the magical things Krueger has at his disposal is his feat, which creates decision-making problems for lists like this. Should my opponent put his heavies 3+ inches into the zone (which puts them within easy reach of my own heavies), or hang back as usual and risk being pushed out of the zone with Krueger's feat?

This is probably one of the best scenarios possible for Krueger2, actually.


My deployment is always such a mess when I'm trying to get used to a new list!

The MK3 standard list: One infantry unit, some support, and the rest SO MANY JACKS.

Menoth Turn 1:

Humorously, we both noted that Severius' feat could only target a maximum of 4 of my models. The rest of my warrior models didn't qualify because they were constructs.

He advanced. The Idrians put Prey on my rightmost Sentry Stone unit.

Idrians also got arcane ward. +2 DEF and no spells cast on them is a nice buff! They advanced then dug in.

Menoth just seems so... slow. Heh.
Circle Turn 1:

I also advanced.

Mannikins struggled to kill any Idrians with their sprays - they needed 11's to hit, and I only rolled a "1" for fury generation on each Stone, which meant no boosts for me.

I had already kind of blundered. I should have had my Sentry Stones grouped together to make a forest wall to keep my heavies obscured, but I failed pretty hard at that.

Ghettorix put up Spiny Growth and trampled forward.

The other heavies hunkered as best they could behind the forest.

I kept the Shrimp father away than I should have. Oops!

Not a very productive turn.

Menoth Turn 2:

He advanced and got both Reckoners next to the zone, though one of them didn't quite make it into the zone. Both Reckoners shot at the Pureblood, but I got lucky and he missed (needed a 9) on the first shot, which would have flared me (-2 DEF).

The rest of his shooting went into the Pureblood, and he nearly died. He hung on though!

About 3 Idrians also got into the zone. They didn't really have any good targets, but my opponent was obviously reluctant to commit. I think he killed off most/all of my Mannikins.

Circle Turn 2:

I could score an easy 2 points, but the question was whether or not I wanted to pop my feat this turn.

Once I determined that one of the Reckoners wasn't actually inside the zone, I decided to just kill my way out of the problem and save my feat for a more decisive turn.

Blackclad went up first and got Hunter's Mark on the Reckoner inside the zone.

Woldwyrd meandered up and shot the DEF 15 Idrians (his additional dice to hit against models with upkeeps on them is money!) out of the zone.

Feral put Primal on Ghetto, then hid behind the Sentry Stone's forest.

Ghetto charged the Reckoner and easily killed him. He had enough fury for Spiny Growth, but I decided (incorrectly) to swing at the other Reckoner instead. With Oracular Vision, I barely did any damage to it. Whoops.

Mannikins killed a couple other Idrians.

Alten Ashley advanced to kill a Choir member. My opponent shield guarded it. Whoops!

Finally, Krueger put up Storm Wall to protect my models as best he could, then went to the flag to dominate it for 1. My beasts controlled the zone for 1.

Score: 2-0, advantage Circle.

I kind of missed Ghetto!

Menoth Turn 3:

My opponent had to do two things: 1) kill Ghetto and 2) contest my own flag. #2 was especially important, as if he failed to do so, I'd get up to 3, and likely waltz into an easy 1 or 2 turn win.

So, he ran a Redeemer into within 4" of my flag. 3 less shots on me at least.

The rest of his army then proceeded to fail to hit or do damage to Ghetto.

Eventually, all other options exhausted, Severius himself put a buff on and charged Ghetto, finishing him off.

He also POPPED HIS FEAT, frying Alten Ashley, but amusingly failing to kill both Blackclads (he needed 6's to kill, and even boosted once).

Somehow, my Pureblood survived the turn as well, despite only having a few boxes left.

Score: 2-0, advantage Circle.

Not a good game state for Menoth.

Circle Turn 3:

I had a pretty obvious assassination vector on Severius. I was pretty sure I could win the game by scenario, but needed practice killing casters. So, I went for it.

First, the Feral warped for SPD and boosted a throw power attack on the Blessing of Vengeance. He hit, and (despite being pushed back an inch, lol?) threw him at Severius. He boosted to hit, and hit. Both were knocked down, and I put some damage on Severius. He had no camp.

I had a few options, since Severius was knocked down. I could have a Blackclad put hunter's mark on him and have the Pureblood charge him. Or Krueger could shoot him thrice.

Instead, I went for the novelty of my Wyrd shooting. Severius had an upkeep on him, and I believe the Wyrd finished him off in one boosted (POW 10 + 4d6) shot.

The game ended.

Game Results: Win for Circle Orboros via assassination!!

Post-game thoughts:

Had this been a tournament game, I might have honestly just tried to kill more of his stuff and win via scenario. Having those CP as tie breakers is really handy. As things stood, I would have at the very least had Krueger TK the Redeemer away from the flag so I could score at least one more.

As to the game - Krueger2 struggles with long-range lists. Storm Winds (all models within his 14" control range are -5 range) is pretty limited when jacks have 12" and 16" range (much less 18" range in with Sloane).

That said, I could easily have played better. I know better than to keep my Sentry Stones apart. Not sure what I had been thinking. He got some good shots off on my Pureblood, but that should never have happened, because the Pureblood would have been behind the Sentry Stones.

It occurred to me after the game that Krueger didn't really do any of his Krueger things: no feat, no TK, and only a couple of minimally effective Storm Winds casting. Still, it was the assurance that I *could* do those Krueger things that made this game work for me. His feat is still pretty good on scenario.

Really fun to play Krueger2 again. Like, fun enough that I'm seriously contemplating taking him to the tournament this coming weekend.

So actually, here's the vote information:

I'll play EITHER:


at the upcoming tournament this weekend (to pair with Baldur1). Vote here on the blog, or on the PP forums, or on Twitter, and I'll play the most voted caster. Lists will largely remain the same, but are subject to tweaks of my choosing. I'm always open to suggestions though. Note that I DO NOT own WE&SJ, and will likely not be using those models.

Alright, as a juicy bonus for you all, my opponent asked to play against my Baldur1 list. He wanted to take the same Severius2 list. I love me some Baldur1, so I was happy to comply.

Game 3: Baldur1 vs. Menoth's Severius2

My List:


Druids of Orboros
Bloodtrackers (max)
Sentry Stone & Mannikins
Sentry Stone & Mannikins
Shifting Stones

Blackclad Wayfarer

His List (same as last time):

- Reckoner
- Reckoner
- Blessing of Vengeance
- Redeemer
- Redeemer

Idrians (max)
Rhoven and Company

>>I again won the roll to go first, and selected the same side, mostly due to the fire hill on his side of the table, and the cover-granting terrain on my own half.

Pre-game thoughts:

My Bloodtrackers were essentially going to be useless this game. Between Ashes to Ashes and Severius' feat, they would mostly just die before they got to do anything.

This scenario isn't the easiest one to win, though the fact that anyone can control the flags is a huge help. My plan was to be opportunistic - if I could get a good trade in, I would. The only things that really scared my Wrath were the Reckoners, so if I could kill one of them, I'd likely be able to walk the table with impunity.

I'd also need to be careful of assassination. Awareness is a really strong spell - being able to see through models to shoot is awesome. Baldur would be exposed for most of the game.


Idrians again put Prey on a Sentry Stone. Bloodtrackers put Prey on the Idrians.

Orracular vision is so good!

Menoth Turn 1:

He ran up and spread the Idrians out to occupy his entire right flank.

Idrians also got Arcane Ward again. DEF 15 no-spells. Bleck.

General advance!

Circle Turn 1:

I also advanced. I kept the Bloodtrackers outside of the Idrians' threat range, which would hopefully keep him from being too aggressive with them.

Stone Skin went on the Wrath.

I doubt I did any damage to him. Maybe I killed an Idrian or two with Mannikins.

Druids put up their elemental defense and smoke clouds. Immunity to Ashes to Ashes and the Severius feat is always nice :-p

Menoth Turn 2:

He also advanced, but again, cautiously. He got all his guns into range of my Sentry Stones.

Between flares and spells, my opponent managed to kill both of my Sentry Stones. Not bad! I'm actually fairly certain that nobody has been able to do that to me in any game up to now, aside from my most recent game against Convergence and their TEP. Impressive :)

Severius also POPPED HIS FEAT. It killed 4 or 5 Bloodtrackers.

Circle Turn 2:

I had a chance to score here. Not twice, but one point was a decent start. Best to put some scenario pressure on when possible.

You see, the Choir had sung "no shooting" against most of the jacks, rather than "no spells".

Druids advanced, knocked a Reckoner down, then pushed him away from the flag he was contesting. They were also able to all get within 4" of it, and have one of their number in control it.

Wrath stood still and shot an Idrian next to the fire hill. The AOE scather would block their advance, and potentially tag team with the fire hill to keep them away from the action for another turn.

Megalith advanced and put managed to knock the arc node down with a crit on his Earth Spikes spell.

Baldur, exposed like crazy, decided to advance and POPPED HIS FEAT.

Score: 1-0, advantage Circle.

Not the worst turn ever.

Shhhh, the Blackclad is hiding :)

Menoth Turn 3:

My opponent decided that killing Baldur wasn't likely to happen - 4 camped with his DEF 18 (in cover) was going to be rough, even with his whole battle group in range.

Instead, he decided on contesting my flags and waiting my feat out.

Blessing of Vengeance advanced to B2B with the flag on the right.

Severius didn't get too handsy. I think he shot an ashes to ashes at Megalith or something through the arc node. He also (wisely) put Arcane Ward on the Reckoner to the left so that the Druids wouldn't be able to target him with spells and push him off the flag. Doh!

The Reckoner ran up to contest the flag on the left.

The rest of the army shot at Megalith, but didn't do much damage.

He actually scored a point this turn too.

Score: 1-1.

Kind of a tricky place to be, actually.

Circle Turn 3:

I couldn't decide what to do this turn. I figured Megalith could kill the Blessing of Vengeance, but it had that annoying repulsor thing that pushed you away an inch every time you hit it with a melee attack.

So that meant that the Wrath would need to charge and kill it instead.

Megalith could conceivably kill the Reckoner to the left, but with ashen veil AND Arcane Ward up, it was DEF 14. I could boost to hit, making it DEF 11, but then with POW 17 vs. ARM 19, I'd average about 28 damage, and the thing had 34 boxes. Megalith would almost certainly die in return.

So I decided to put some pressure on instead.

Blackclad put Hunter's Mark on Blessing of Vengeance.

Druids advanced. A few got into melee with the Reckoner, and a few picked other targets. I managed to target the objective with my 3" knockdown AOE and knocked down Severius and Rhoven. Another one knocked down a nearby Reckoner.

Wrath charged Blessing of Vengeance, making sure he was also base to base with the flag. He boosted his first roll to hit, knocked the jack down, and finished him quickly thereafter.

Megalith killed ... something? With Earth Spikes? Maybe he knocked something down? I don't really remember, lol.

I do know that I killed at least one Choir member. Maybe 2.

Wrath scored.

Score: 2-1, advantage Circle.

Baldur again camping 4, though now he's much safer because the arc node is gone.

Menoth Turn 4:

I had mentioned that Hex Blast could work on the Wrath if it hit something near to the Wrath and the AOE touched him. I immediately regretted my decision in mentioning it though, as he then ran a guy from Rhoven's unit up to the Wrath.

Severius then put Hex Blast on the model and wiped Stone Skin off of the Wrath.

Everything then went into shooting/punching him.

It wasn't enough. Even with the Idrians SPIKING their damage rolls like crazy (multiple 10's,11's and 12's to damage), he kept about 7 boxes.

Nobody scored this turn.

Severius again on no camp. Heh.

Circle Turn 4:

I wasn't in the worst shape ever, but neither was I in great shape. The sooner this ended, the better for me.

Druids advanced and got a shot off on the objective, again knocking Severius down, and also knocking his nearby shield guard down.

After that, it was a simple matter to boost the Wrath's POW 15 shot into him and two boosted Earth Spikes from Megalith/Baldur. I actually think the first Earth Spikes finished it.

The game ended.

Game Results: Win via assassination for Circle Orboros!!

Post-game thoughts:

This was a much better/closer game for my opponent than the Krueger2 game. He said it before I did: he made a big mistake by not making his jacks immune to spells on Turn 2. If he had done that, I wouldn't have been able to score that turn.

Still, it wasn't a scenario loss.

I'm not sure what advice to give my opponent. Severius needed to be more protected. I'm not much of an assassination player, but I got 2 assassinations against him. Leaving Severius on a 2 or 3 camp should be enough. He'll get better at it, especially once he starts understanding Circle's assassination vectors. I personally think that the Book is too good to pass up on. Then again, that's because it specifically screws up a lot of what my Baldur1 list looks to do.

As to my own play - I was happy enough with it. Without using my Bloodtrackers, it certainly FELT like I was playing 16 points down. Severius2 is a really tough caster to play against.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have had Megalith charge the 2nd Reckoner. If Baldur had cycled Stone Skin onto him, he would have been likely to kill that jack. It just seemed risky - if Megalith AND the Wrath died, I'd be in a world of hurt. Better to leave him in reserves, heh.

At any rate, three fun games, two great opponents! Let the good times roll!

Now, go vote! Krueger2 or Baldur2?

Here's a Grayle list I've been thinking about lately:

Been considering taking out a Pureblood in favor of the Death Wolves unit and some Sentry Stones or Blackclads. Still definitely a work in progress, but once I get the right models (Reeves are being painted right now and I don't own Grayle yet), I'll be playing him some. Just an FYI. :)

Hope you enjoyed the reports!

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