tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post4178188359479228681..comments2024-01-07T17:15:45.455-07:00Comments on Delusions of Grandeur: Tournament Report: Adepticon 40k Championships (with pictures!)Xaerethhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15128303819082218339noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-1542564874204131572011-04-09T15:49:24.779-06:002011-04-09T15:49:24.779-06:00If there's ever a situation like that, Its usu...If there's ever a situation like that, Its usually quite easy to take one uni, say his nobs or your star, and quickly run through what they did each turn. Very easy and can't be argued with. <br /><br />Although I understand that you're saying he wouldn't even talk about it and wouldn't let you talk to the judges either ... so bad times.<br /><br />I would have just smashed him in the face or flipped the table over. So kudos for keeping your cool and just letting it go in the end and moving on. Nice report too. Always a pleasure to read.Hamaninoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-51238874369893401502011-04-09T11:33:16.570-06:002011-04-09T11:33:16.570-06:00Sorry, the phrase "wasn't necessarily awa...Sorry, the phrase "wasn't necessarily aware" was meant to imply that I cannot recall the full details of the conversation (I was very busy entering the results from 123 games). On top of that, I was not a rules judge and therefore my role in any resulting discussion was very limited nor influential. I am pretty sure Adam made the judges fully aware of this fact and it was ultimately their call to make.<br /><br />Any real involvement I had in this discussion occurred well after the call was made. If I was a rules judge would I have called it differently? Perhaps, but that is neither here nor there. The facts were considered and the call was made by the judges and those rulings are final. If you don't want judges ruling on such things...well there are a couple simple answers to that.Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01692546909563451253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-40566327727551556192011-04-09T10:34:24.080-06:002011-04-09T10:34:24.080-06:00Not to poo poo on judges, as I know from experienc...Not to poo poo on judges, as I know from experience that having to make a hard game deciding call, especially at a large is killer, and that even if we want to we can't solve everything dispute. But the fact that someone involved in the discussion of what to do over your game three wasn't presented with all the facts (like the lopsided number of turns), is really a mark against them if that information was presented by you to whatever judge you first called over, or any other judge that subsequently became involved in the dispute.<br /><br />Either way, great report, glad that the cheater in game 3 didn't ruin your entire Adepticon experience.derekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02862365237409836740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-66155910693535446012011-04-09T09:07:38.722-06:002011-04-09T09:07:38.722-06:00Great battle reports, gave me a lot to do at work,...Great battle reports, gave me a lot to do at work, lol. I particularly like the pictures with those beautiful blue and gold dice ;) ... Stinks about that player,r you would think "game turn," would be a pretty easy thing to keep track of... the idea of a turn counter die in the swag bag is great (Feast 2011!).<br /><br />DukeDukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08975831209122743251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-30735420423664422552011-04-09T01:01:34.905-06:002011-04-09T01:01:34.905-06:00The swarmlord can hand out FC to one unit. That is...The swarmlord can hand out FC to one unit. That is how the GS probably got it. Nice battle reports. If you ever meet the ork guy, you should get a rematch.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04384621351008059311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-23262680630462662502011-04-08T21:33:53.763-06:002011-04-08T21:33:53.763-06:00Not sure where you get the angry vibe from, other ...Not sure where you get the angry vibe from, other than it makes for a convienent way to write me off. Nothing could be further than the truth, this is simple pushback against false generalities about people that spend a considerable amount of time and energy to make events like this happen. Those judges do care about every game and do the best they can when presented with situations that are impossible to arbitrate.<br /><br />I feel for you in the grand scheme of things. No one likes to have a game end on such a sour note. Part of this stems from the nature of the event/format and is something that is likely to see some changes going forward.Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01692546909563451253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-63368534989047744522011-04-08T20:59:22.792-06:002011-04-08T20:59:22.792-06:00Heh, I like the idea of the dice in the swag bag. ...Heh, I like the idea of the dice in the swag bag. That would be cool for sure! Cuz right now I have no real inclination to buy one myself.<br /><br />As for the rest man... just let the anger subside. Nobody here is trying to make you mad, or even rag on you. I just wanted to write battle reports for my games. There was an explanation required as to why I lost, and I tried to keep it as brief as possible. I've been trying to be as straightforward about what happened as possible- if you're still not convinced, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to change anything. I liked your event, and want to go back next year. Simple truth.<br /><br />Check back in a while, I'll have an 'overall report' on Adepticon- maybe you can find more 'disingenuousness' from me. It'll be a positive report though.Xaerethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128303819082218339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-22063837188226727812011-04-08T19:52:03.281-06:002011-04-08T19:52:03.281-06:00Sorry - I thought by the content of my post it was...Sorry - I thought by the content of my post it was obvious I was responding to Nike's comment, a comment fueled by your previously loose and ambiguous language like "We fought about it until the judges came over and told us they didn't want to deal with it". This is the textbook definition of disingenuous, something you later admit in the comments. Still, this sort of self-serving language (at the expenses of the judges) fosters one-sided, knee-jerk responses like Nike's and the guy that claimed the AdeptiCon judges had "jewed" a few people. Cute.<br /><br />While I was not a rules judge for this event, I was helping run it, and was involved in the discussion about this issue. In hindsight, and in the issue of fairness, I might have changed my vote to have you complete whatever turn it was your game was on (even if the clock had expired)...although I wasn't necessarily aware that the player turns were lopsided at the time.<br /><br />On the positive side, this gives me a great idea for some AdeptiCon 2012 swag. A die (maybe 6 or 12-sided if you did half turns) With Turn 1, Turn 2, Turn 3 and all that on it. Arrow above the number so you can point the die at the player whose current turn it is. You could even print the Random Game Length rules on the face...Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01692546909563451253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-27332226330182404282011-04-08T19:04:28.573-06:002011-04-08T19:04:28.573-06:00No reason not to take pictures, Patrick. You'...No reason not to take pictures, Patrick. You'll enjoy them and can make a battle report using them. I think they're not a bad idea, anyway. In the Ard Boyz final a couple of years ago I thought my opponent was slow-playing, so in an early turn when he ran off to the bathroom I both alerted the judges and started keeping a written record of how long our turns were taking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-57186618739979676802011-04-08T18:49:32.486-06:002011-04-08T18:49:32.486-06:00It is always interesting to see how people respond...It is always interesting to see how people respond to pressure. The no-lose requirement to get to day 2 must really pop some player's blood vessels and create a huge amount of stress. Good to see you were able to keep to the high road.Minghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01497228965588834972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-65581205987233569172011-04-08T18:20:59.694-06:002011-04-08T18:20:59.694-06:00I guess I don't understand why the judges coul...I guess I don't understand why the judges couldn't use pictures as they would lend credit to your story, though there probably need to have been plenty of them. I am planning on hitting the GT in Omaha in June and I think this sinks the deal on me taking pictures to build a case to stop this crap. At any rate, great batreps as usual and sorry for the arse that stole your thunder.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07989269296560017446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-34382459660658816652011-04-08T18:03:24.281-06:002011-04-08T18:03:24.281-06:00As soon as I saw the "Three Foot Two" sh...As soon as I saw the "Three Foot Two" shirt bending over the table I knew it was going to be a tale of a cheater. What a complete asshole. Those guys cheated last year, and evidently have no intention of stopping. That dude is a piece of human sputum floating in the toilet of life, and I commend you for not punching him in the face. You sir, evidently have the patience of saint.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-54195033583283862192011-04-08T16:53:28.554-06:002011-04-08T16:53:28.554-06:00Matthias, I didn't mean to cause offense.
I...Matthias, I didn't mean to cause offense. <br /><br />I'm comparing my experience playing professional magic the gathering to this situation, and I'm being fair: the judges at a major MtG tournament wouldn't simply let one player have his way in a word vs word scenario. <br /><br />I don't mean to be overly critical about a situation I have limited knowledge of. My suggestion is to check out the MtG tournament floor rules for how judges are supposed to handle when the two players cannot agree with reality and there is no way to reconstruct the scenario.Nikephoroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-67127025724518662942011-04-08T16:16:16.784-06:002011-04-08T16:16:16.784-06:00Easy there Mattias. Read the post. The judges DI...Easy there Mattias. Read the post. The judges DIDN'T know what to do. I didn't say anything about 'spineless judges'. In fact, read a few posts down, in the comments. I absolved the judges from fault. No need to get on your high horse man. <br /><br />I don't agree with the way it was handled overall, but in the end, there was no real good solution. They did what they could, and that was that. My blame rests on the player.<br /><br />Disingenuous posts? You mean the ONE post I posted a long time ago about my feedback being ignored? No need to blow this out of proportion. I said what it seemed like to me, you took offense (and ranted hard about it), and we made our peace (or so I thought). <br /><br />Seriously... take it easy. I even said I enjoyed the event, despite the PLAYER from game 3. Read the whole post, instead of just assuming I'm dissing you.<br /><br />Nike: Heh, no clue about the Swarmlord thing. I wasn't too worried about it. If it was a big deal somehow, I suppose I would have asked more questions.<br /><br />As to the judges... well, it's always a lot clearer in hindsight. I still think that a rolloff would have been preferable to just letting a bully get his way (since 50% of the time he would have been foiled, instead of giving the chance that he gets his way without contest) but... guess that's just how it goes. I don't think they were TRYING to screw me- just a difference in approach I suppose.<br /><br />/shrug<br /><br />The notes might have worked- but I don't really ever take notes. Not a lot of reason to, when I take pictures. Maybe I'll start thinking about it.Xaerethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128303819082218339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-70858334887864436342011-04-08T15:50:41.687-06:002011-04-08T15:50:41.687-06:00"Spineless judges"? I've seen a few ..."Spineless judges"? I've seen a few disingenuous posts on this blog regarding AdeptiCon, but the way this whole thing has been presented is a bit over the top. The number of turns played is 100% the players responsibility to keep track of. Judges are there to arbitrate rules disputes and the like, not babysit. Short of not being able to produce a time machine, I fail to see how this is the judge's fault.<br /><br />Calling their game where it stood, as opposed to where it was back when it ended under Turn 5 according to the one player, was the best case scenario. That WAS an actual call, not spineless. Was there discussion? Of course there was. It was discussed by the judges at the front table and voted on as the fairest thing to do at that point if the players could not come to an agreement or work out the turn order themselves.<br /><br />To simply say, "dice off for it" sets an incredibly terrible precedent. It wouldn't be long before lots of people who didn't like the results of their game were suddenly 'forgetting' what turn it was and reducing the game to a 50/50 die roll. That would be terrible, spineless judging.<br /><br />Lesson is: count your turns. Take responsibility for your game.Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01692546909563451253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-21068612569986724512011-04-08T15:35:06.766-06:002011-04-08T15:35:06.766-06:00Excellent report, though that Ork match was a bumm...Excellent report, though that Ork match was a bummer. Couple things...<br /><br />1. I don't think the Swarmlord gives the +1 to reserve rolls unless he is on the table at the start of the turn. You got hosed there, I think. Unless the INAT is different?<br /><br />2. The biggest bummer of the Ork match is not the shady opponent, but the spineless judges. Judges shouldn't be afraid to make a ruling, and when its a situation of my word vs. yours it should AT LEAST come down to a dice off. There is no way that he should get the win because he was the loudest. Worst case scenario it should be a 50/50 chance if you disagree over reality.<br /><br />3. I don't use a turn counter, but I do keep a pad of paper to keep notes when allowed. Usually in short-hand to help jog my memory on batreps, but in this case it can serve as a turn counter. I actually fail to see why your photographs weren't admissible evidence. It's your word AND your camera vs. just his word. Seems like a clear cut choice.<br /><br />Plus horde Orks? Like it's believable you got 6 turns done at tourney that quickly? C'mon. All the evidence points to it being turn 5.Nikephoroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14484058926496438148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-287063462894217532011-04-08T15:03:37.051-06:002011-04-08T15:03:37.051-06:00Heh, it's nice when someone does that, though ...Heh, it's nice when someone does that, though I rarely do- when I try to remember to do it I just pick the dice up eventually. I doubt it would have helped though, he was just being irrational and telling me I had forgotten everything.<br /><br />/shrugXaerethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128303819082218339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2270954585025025585.post-29719366118871772562011-04-08T14:34:04.106-06:002011-04-08T14:34:04.106-06:00Nice report. Sucks about game 3.
I've heard ...Nice report. Sucks about game 3.<br /><br />I've heard too many stories like this from Adepticon, though. Does no one use some form of turn counter for their games?<br /><br />I have a very large D20 that I use to track what turn it is. It's always in sight of both players, and it's big so it's pretty obvious if someone is messing with it.Rkikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02841432959251782948noreply@blogger.com